232. Jeremy Johnson - Emergence from the middle, the importance of hesitation and going terrestial
Jeremy D Johnson visited the podcast a second time after 2 years (website). This was a deep and curious conversation about change all the way down. We spoke of emergence happening in the middle, the idea of slowing down, the importance of hesitation, temporics of attention, the awakening of the relational (integrated) worldview in younger generations. We also spoke of this notion of the potential for creative responses in the fisures, in those moments when our habits no longer meets the worlds we live in. Jeremy is a master with words and this is a beautiful weaving that provided me with lots of insight. Enjoy! Host: Amit Paul
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What does it mean to commit to going terrestrial in our times? How can I live in those pockets that are already living the future?
Brilliant Jeremy Johnson joined me on EP 232 of the World of Wisdom 🎙️ Podcast. We spoke of time, meaning, hesitation, oscillation and faith. This is a deep exploration into the unfolding of our current moment.
Here are some highlights for me personally (far from exhaustive):
🕰 "The past is my present, it is not a forgone conclusion what I end up doing and end up being. I have to live. There is a simultaneity, it’s still open and still in relationship." Jeremy describes his path into fatherhood as a deepening of his explorations. A journey I can relate to. A coming into contact with the ongoingness of life. A spanning of generations.
🔗 "An orienting meaning of our times is to turn back to our planet and our place. [...] Earthbound attractor." One that consist of invaluable gains and unacceptable losses, one of bifurcations and consequences. One that invites us beyond the polarities and instead live into the middle. That place where the emergence actually happens. Life as contingency without losing its meaning. What does relational emergence look like?
🤲 "There is a kind of faith: I’m am vulnerable, I am open to being changed, I don’t know quite what that is or if I will like it but it is the only way to be in relationship to the world. To be vulnerable to the world." Coupled with the invitation to live into a different ego, one that is: "...one person in this carnival of selves that live within us."
🤷♀️ "The power of hesitation is to truly perceive the world as new. Not presuming a readymade relationship." The importance to combine the slowing down and allow oneself to actually hesitate. To come into relationship with the novelty.
⏩ We speak of where the word might be unfolding in the current world. Jeremy's experience that there is "A lot of people already have the capacity to engage with the world in a more relational way. There is a spontaneous mutation moving into the integral future." through his courses.
➿ "The only way to get to a new relationship with the world or a new worldview is through oscillating. [...] Oscillation is not a sign that we’re not moving in a new direction rather it’s is the only way to learn what that new direction is. It is a dialectical learning process." There is hope to see that so many topics are reocurring, they are not the same. The context is different. The chain of bifurcations and consequences continue.
🥀 Finally the invitation to look at what it means for us to be human. The potential we carry to "intensify the relationships" between the humans and the world, to unfold more of systems potentials in a custodial role.
This is a wonderful conversation that provided me with much insight. EP232 on the World of Wisdom podcast, 🔗 in bio or wherever you 🎧 to podcasts.
AI Summary
Summary
In this conversation, Amit and Jeremy discuss the changes and transformations that have occurred in Jeremy's life since their last conversation. Jeremy shares how becoming a father has shifted his perspective and brought clarity to his work and writing. They explore the concept of alignment and the entanglement of past, present, and future. Jeremy talks about his current research project on the history of consciousness and the importance of reframing the narrative of progress. They discuss the need to hold tensions and paradoxes, the importance of trust and faith in navigating complexity, and the shift towards a more terrestrial orientation. The conversation explores the themes of agency, temporality, and cultural shifts. It delves into the idea of loosening and shifting layers of perception and the relationship between agency and the processual nature of the self. The concept of hesitation and slowing down is discussed as a way to open up to new ways of seeing and being. The conversation also touches on the oscillation of history and the potential for dynamic and creative transformation. The importance of reconnecting with nature and engaging in a different sense of history is emphasized.
Takeaways
Becoming a parent can bring clarity and a shift in perspective.
The entanglement of past, present, and future is important to consider in our understanding of ourselves and the world.
Reframing the narrative of progress and embracing complexity can lead to new possibilities and a deeper sense of agency.
Navigating complexity requires trust, faith, and the willingness to be vulnerable and transformed by relationships.
There is value in holding tensions and paradoxes, and embracing the middle ground between polarities.
A shift towards a more terrestrial orientation, reconnecting with the land and place, is necessary for a sustainable future. Agency is related to the processual nature of the self and the relationality of our experiences.
Slowing down and hesitation can lead to new ways of seeing and being.
Cultural shifts are happening towards localization, bioregionalism, and democratization of work.
Oscillation in history is not a failure but a learning process that leads to new directions.
Human beings have a dynamic and creative capacity to shape and reshape themselves and their relationship with the world.
Reconnecting with nature and engaging in a different sense of history can open up new possibilities for the future.
AI picks quotes:
"My old self was not salvageable."
"History is more like a zigzag or a winding river."
"Contingency without losing meaning."
"Direction is a time space or whatever. not a polarity."
"What does it really mean? The agency is much more transparent."
"The self is constellated. Now, where do we begin and where do we end?"
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Welcome Back
03:36 The Transformative Power of Fatherhood
08:54 The Entanglement of Past, Present, and Future
13:29 Reframing the Narrative of Progress
17:05 Navigating Complexity with Trust and Faith
25:11 Embracing Tensions and Paradoxes
29:46 Towards a Terrestrial Orientation
34:10 Exploring Agency and the Processual Nature of the Self
37:29 The Power of Slowing Down and Hesitation
50:23 Cultural Shifts Towards Localization and Democratization
53:40 The Oscillation of History and the Emergence of New Directions
01:03:25 The Dynamic and Creative Capacity of Human Beings
01:05:15 Reconnecting with Nature and Rethinking History for a New Future