215. Jeff Su - Working with life as the model
Jeff Su from nrythm and I got to speak about working with life as a model. This is a wonderful, tangible primer for those not familiar with what the regenerative paradigm is all about. Actually its probably a wonderful primer for even practitioners to check themselves around. Clear, precise and tangible. For entrepreneurs and established companies take a look at the incubator (application closes 19th of April 2024), here is a link to the organisational health assessment and the regenerative design lab. Enjoy this one, I certainly did. Host: Amit Paul
Social media post
"Whether we like it or not organisations are living? If we don’t recognise that we spend most or our energy and technology in trying to manage the consequences of not accepting that."
Jeff Su, founder of nRhythm, came to the World of Wisdom 🎙️ Podcast EP215. We spoke about life and living things as well as its patterns. This conversation was deeply resonant for me. Check out their incubator (application closes 19th of April) if you're curious!
Here are some nuggets:
🌪 Autopoesis: Life is an organised system capable of maintaining itself within a boundary of its own making. "Regenerative" is a definition of a living system.
👉 Can we look at the health of an organisation by looking at the information and the energy that flows through (and in) it?
💠 What patterns seem to crucial to life?
1) Holisms and nestedness. There is no way to perceive your system as a whole without taking the systemic view.
2) Interdependence. It's complex and dynamic. There is no linear relationship between the energy and work input and the output.
3) Uniqueness. There is no best practice! Each organisation is unique.
4) Dynamic evolution. Life responds to its environment and dynamically creates conditions conducive to (more) life.
5) Structures are different. Nested and nodal relationship not command and control.
6) Constantly in change and flux. Yet somehow retains a continuity of form.
Enjoy this conversation! World of Wisdom 🎙️ Podcast where you find podcasts or 👉 link in bio. Enjoy!
AI summary
Summary
In this episode, Amit Poole interviews Jeff Su, co-founder of In Rhythm, about his journey from academia to working on organizations as living systems. Jeff discusses the limitations of reductionist thinking in academia and the need for a more holistic approach. He shares his experiences in the field of ecology and how it led him to question traditional views of organizations. Jeff explains the concept of regenerative business and the importance of designing organizations as living systems. He also highlights the impact of mechanistic thinking on employee engagement and introduces the patterns of living systems that In Rhythm focuses on in their work. The conversation explores the application of living systems thinking to organizational development and transformation. It emphasizes the need to move away from the idea of best practices that can be universally applied and instead focus on the unique context of each industry. The concept of operational identity is introduced, highlighting the importance of aligning an organization's design principles with its foundational beliefs. The discussion also touches on the role of information as nutrients and the need for organizations to constantly recreate their culture and identity. The challenges of embracing emergence and letting go of control are discussed, as well as the potential for the unknown to be a source of potential. The conversation concludes with an invitation to join an incubator program that provides practical tools for implementing a living systems approach in organizations.
Takeaways
Reductionist thinking in academia can limit our understanding of complex systems.
Organizations should be viewed as living systems, not machines.
Regenerative business focuses on designing organizations that mimic the patterns of living systems.
Mechanistic thinking can negatively impact employee engagement and productivity. Each industry is unique, and best practices cannot be universally applied. Organizations need to consider their unique context and apply principles accordingly.
Operational identity is the boundary of an organization's own making, constantly recreated through interactions, decisions, and new employees.
Living systems are in a constant state of change and growth while maintaining continuity of form.
Organizations should focus on creating conditions for emergent outcomes rather than solely pursuing predictable outcomes.
Information is like nutrients in a system, and organizations need to ensure that information flows and cycles through the organization.
Thriving people and thriving relationships are the source and transformation of energy in an organization.
Externalizing unintended consequences can lead to the false perception that mechanistic systems work.
Embracing emergence and letting go of control is a challenging habit to change in organizations.
The unknown can be seen as an experience of potential rather than a risky place to be.
The with life approach can be applied to various domains, including organizational development, agriculture systems, economic systems, and government systems.
An incubator program is available for individuals and organizations interested in learning and implementing the living systems approach.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Background
01:05 Defining Identity and Recovering from Academia
07:26 The Journey to Regenerative Business
14:09 The Difference Between Mechanistic and Living Systems
26:25 Using Life as a Model for Organizational Design
29:48 The Essence of In Rhythm's Work
33:07 Unique Application of Best Practices
34:14 Living Systems and Continuity of Form
35:07 Creating Operational Identity
37:16 Design Principles and Emergent Outcomes
38:41 Organizational Health Assessment
39:40 Information as Nutrients
42:26 Thriving People and Thriving Relationships
46:18 Externalizing Unintended Consequences
49:45 Embracing Emergence and Letting Go of Control
51:21 Predictability vs. Emergence
52:31 The Unknown as Potential
56:29 With Life Approach
59:26 Incubator Program